Francoise Tibika. Molecular Consciousness

Interview by Iain McNay

Iain: Hello and welcome once again to Conscious TV. I’m Iain McNay and my guest today is Francoise Tibika.

Francoise:  Yes, yes.

Iain: Francoise…. We are always trawling through book reviews, Renata (my wife) and I. We get various magazines and we look through and if a book looks interesting we order it and then have a look and we see whether we’d like to invite the guest. I found this book, which was called, ‘Molecular Consciousness: Why The Universe Is Aware Of Our Presence,’ by Francoise and as usual we contacted her and she lives in Jerusalem but was visiting Europe and came over to London for the interview.
So, we are going to talk about molecular consciousness, how it affects virtually everything we do. I learnt a lot through reading this book.
So, Francoise, you sent me some biographical notes to help me get a feel of you and your personal life, if you like. One of the things you said was your father was very influential in your life at an early stage.

Francoise:  Yes. First of all I want to thank you for inviting me to your program, it’s very nice and I feel very lucky to be here with you.
Yes, I was raised in an atmosphere of, ‘God is everywhere,’ and in an atmosphere of strong faith in life and that God is overcoming everything else. Nothing is important, money’s not important, all you have to do is to believe in God and to believe that God is loving you and helping you and will bring you where you have to be. My father also had this strong message that nothing is important but the people of Israel. That was the message I was getting from him and that the people of Israel will have a very important role in freeing the world, this was his message.

Iain: Yes, yes and you also had a well-known teacher. Someone I’d actually not heard of, I researched this, she is quite a well known teacher called Colette Aboulkar-Muscat, who lived next door to you and she also became very influential.

Francoise: Yes, I met Colette by chance, if one can say such a thing, in 1986, and she became a teacher to me. She was giving classes on imagery and imagery is how you can, by closing your eyes, you can look into yourself and discover your inner world and discover the power of imagination, the power of thoughts and that the outer world was much influenced by your inner world, at that time I didn’t know about this inner world and I discovered it through Colette.

Iain: Then you decided to study chemistry, although you were also drawn to religion and philosophy.

Francoise: When I met Colette I already had a PHD. I’d decided to learn chemistry because I had the feeling from my father that there was nothing interesting in learning philosophy or psychology, and with this view of the world I was not grounded. I needed science, to make a connection, to go down, to be more earth to earth, hearing my father talking about God and apocalyptic views, I needed this grounding. So I arrived at chemistry by elimination I would say. Mathematics is too abstract, physics for men, biology too much of things to memorize, so I took chemistry. (She laughs).

Iain: Yes and that’s something that’s so important isn’t it? It’s the bringing down to life our religious beliefs, whatever we have. It doesn’t matter what religion we have if we are not able to live it on a practical level and enhance our lives, then somehow it hasn’t worked.

Francoise: Yes, as if I needed like another view to the world, not only a very spiritual and airy one…like I needed to have something solid to ground myself and chemistry was the best choice for me. It helps me a lot to realize that we are not only spirit, we are also made of matter and what is this matter. This is what I wanted to discover.

Iain: And what did you start to learn about chemistry?

Francoise: I started to learn that we are made of atoms and molecules and these have their own rules and they don’t care about what our minds think. In a way, at a certain moment for you, you’re gonna die and your mind can say whatever it wants, but you’re gonna die, so we have like a very short period of time where we live and our molecules they are, they never die. So we have this period of time where we have kind of control on the molecules. I wanted to discover what kind of control do we really have. We have these molecules that rule by rules of matter that chemistry teaches.

Iain: Yes, and you reveal some facts in the book and one that I didn’t realize, we have, in our body around fifty billion cells and the cells of course are made up of molecules, so we must have even more billions of molecules in our body…

Francoise: Yes, it is an enormous number and I’m very surprised that people, as you say, are not aware of this, it’s very strange to me, this is what I wanted to teach, that we are matter and this matter has rules that we should not…that we should learn if we want to learn about ourselves and this is something that is very important and very in fashion to know yourself, heal yourself, who are you?

Iain: Well, that’s a big question we look at a lot on Conscious TV – Who are you? And, of course as you are suggesting we are, we have our belief system, we have our minds, we have…then we have physically and what we are physically.

Francoise: So what I try to answer is not who you are but what are you?

Iain: Yes, what we are, yes.

Francoise: First of all, what are you?

Iain: Yeah…so…you start the book by talking about living matter and inert matter. So, what’s the difference between these two?

Francoise: Well, inert matter…actually what chemistry teaches is that the whole world is built of something like one hundred and nine atoms, more than one hundred and that inert matter and living matter are made of the same atoms. I mean, if you look at it chemically speaking there is no difference in the structure. It’s not that living matter has something different than inert matter, that it has a vital force, chemistry never speaks about the vital source and there is no vital atom that we can find in inert matter….so what is really the difference between inert matter and live matter, and we see there is a difference obviously and this difference is more in the direction of the molecule and the activity of the molecule. Inert matter is, is not alive because it doesn’t react with the outside.
The molecules of this chair (touches chair she is sitting in) are gonna be the same for years but your molecules are in transit, always in transit and you take molecules, you give up molecules so we’re like in a transit state. This, (she touches the chair), is very stiff and eternal, if I could say, in terms of tens of years, of inert matter. Inert matter is like the decoration of life. Life is like a theatre and the inert matter is a decoration, the background of where things happen.

Iain: So, our molecules, in human beings, we’re always, they’re always moving aren’t they? They’re always reacting, there’s always a process going on. And there’s life and death the whole time, every second there’s molecules that are, I guess, they’re not completely dying but they’re changing their form. Is that right?

Francoise: Yeah, yeah, an atom can never die, this is the first law of thermo-dynamics. You cannot lose matter, it never dies, what dies is the coherence.

Iain: The form.

Francoise: The coherence between your molecules. This is what is lost when you die, the glue and this glue which we would call the vital force has no chemical, has no place in a chemical reaction, in chemical jargon. Vital force is not belonging to a biological lexicon and still there is something.

Iain: Okay. But why is there that change? Why is that happening? Why, why does something die? What’s the kind of…..okay I understand the movement of molecules, the constant reactions but is that, what is the process there? Is it something that just happens or do we know why that happens, that something dies?

Francoise: No, we don’t know! We don’t know! Today we don’t know why this is happening.

Iain: Okay. So, I’m just going to work through the different sections of your book. So, you mention at one point Alchemists in the book, the source of their wisdom, eternal life was found in inert matter, so obviously life comes out of inert matter. So how does that process happen?

Francoise: Yes, yes..well, inert matter you have. When inert matter reacts you can have two directions. The direction of inert matter is to go to equilibrium, meaning when we have a spontaneous reaction it goes either to more chaos or more mixing and it goes to the composition. But in the living process you go to the synthesis process. Which means that you are taking energy and matter from outside and making new proteins. It’s as if you have two forces, one of which is going to death and one is going to life, which is to take molecules from the outside and making the synthesis to something that will also die at some point, but there is an exchange with the outside all the time and this exchange is making us react all the time and at a certain point, and we don’t know how and we don’t know why exactly, this coherence between the molecules, (one part knows it has to make the protein and the other part knows it has to make another vital molecule), this coherence and this, what I call, the communication between the molecules will stop at a certain point. Life is a communication between the molecules.
In a glass of water, there is no communication. If I cut here, a piece (she pretends to cut the chair arm), this part of the wood would not know that I’d cut a piece, but if I cut your finger, something will know, you will have other cells, this is life, the communication.

Iain: The other cells will try to come and fix it, yes, so there’s a whole process going on, yes. The human body is such an incredible, intricate organism, organization of organisms. It seems with the human body that we forget that it’s always changing and we get on with our lives and we’re in our thoughts and everything, but every second there are cells dying, there are cells reborn. There’s these chemicals going around that inform, keep in touch with all the molecules, it’s just this amazing process going on.

Francoise: Yes and for instance, you may feel a pain or a discomfort in your body, instead of running to the drug store and buying something to change it, thinking it’s gonna be fatal or forever, the body changes all the time and it also gives you an opportunity to be new all the time, to forget what has happened yesterday and try to fit to the new situation, because every single moment there is a new situation, you are new.

Iain: Yeah and also you talk about there being……everything is virtually space. I think form is…I’ve got the figure down here, 99.9999% of the universe is practically empty. So, even though we have this form, which we see, if we really look into the form there’s practically nothing there.

Francoise: Yes, yes. We are really a construction of our brain. Matter at the atomic level is waves, is a wave packet, and all that you can touch and see is a kind of, even for science, is an illusion because it is an image that your brain has constructed with your five senses. All you can see and feel is a wave. If you close your eyes, all you can feel is waves, there are only waves and apparently your brain is building that picture that you see all around, the smell and the texture and the colour, is a construction of your brain. It’s like when you have an electro-magnetic wave reaching a computer, you have an image, and sometimes you have the three-dimensional coming out from a computer, you know, how do you call them? Virtual reality games, you can, you can feel the waves.

Iain: So when I look at you and I see Francoise sitting here and I spent dinner with you two nights ago and I get to know you a little bit and so I see you physically, what you’re saying is I’m just seeing waves and my brain is putting together a construct so I see form. Is that correct?

Francoise: You don’t see waves, there are waves and your brain is constructing the image, yes.

Iain: So when I look out of my eyes…are you saying that I don’t really see anything? When I look through my eyes at you, I think I’m seeing you through my eyes? Is that correct?

Francoise: Well, the image is made in your brain somewhere and you’re projecting this image to the outside yeah, the eyes, I wouldn’t tell you exactly where the image is built, but it is a construction. If you close your eyes, it’s like the famous saying, if there is a tree falling in the forest and nobody is here to see the tree or hear it, has it really fallen? This is, this is a question of quantum mechanics.

Iain: Okay, so how does it work with the molecules then, because there’s molecules everywhere. Is there molecules in the space between us?

Francoise: Of course there are molecules everywhere, everywhere.

Iain: Everywhere, everything is molecules, so how does it work then? And I know further on in your book you talk a lot about the molecules being full of information, in fact, you even say at one point that the molecules are information (Francoise agrees). So, information that’s passing, there’s my five senses, your five senses, I’m full of molecules, you’re full of molecules, the air’s full of molecules, so in a way there’s one thing, whatever it is and there’s molecules that have different form. Is that correct?

Francoise: The molecules are waves actually and again what is making the forms of the molecules, the colour, is the brain, this amazing system that we have, the senses are making this picture that you see.

Iain: So, there’s three basic laws you talk about. There’s the law that we cannot make or destroy energy. So that means when I’m using up energy now, my molecules, my cells are all firing away. I’ve got some energy from my breakfast, so I get…so of course I breathe in oxygen, so what happens to that energy once I’ve used it up? For me that’s energy’s gone. So where is it?

Francoise: It’s not gone you’re using it. First of all you’re using it to warm up your body. You are thirty-seven degrees, you have to keep this machine at thirty-seven degrees and outside is about twenty, twenty-two, so you have like 15 degrees to warm up and fifteen degrees is a lot of energy to create.

Iain: Okay, I use the energy of the food and the air and the water and everything else but if I stop drinking and I stop eating, of course if I stop breathing, my cells basically die and I’m not in this form any more, not in this perceived form, so where’s that? Once that energy is…let’s take a better example, let’s say when there’s wood in burning in the fire, so the wood in the fire that gives heat and gives energy, so once the wood is burned and is charcoal, where’s the energy gone?

Francoise: The energy is dispersed, it’s like crumbling, you take a piece of bread, it becomes like little pieces. Energy is not disappearing, the heat energy is moving. It’s like you, as if you have, let’s say a pool of bowls and you take this stick and you move one bowl. The ones that are all near are going to move faster and then slowly, slowly, and slowly and slowly the energy is dispersed but it doesn’t disappear. It will come to a slower and slower and slower and slower motion but it will not disappear, it will transform into something else but it will not disappear. Let’s say you have…I heat this glass, it’s gonna be hot and then it’s gonna cool down but the heat is gonna be dispersed in the atmosphere. It’s gonna lose its…it becomes less dense that’s all.

Iain: Okay and so it’s clear that we can use energy, you talk about how we can transform energy but we can’t actually create it. We think we create energy but we can’t, we’re using the molecules and they are interacting with other molecules and that’s how we get our energy.

Francoise: Yes, yes…we don’t create energy. For instance we use the energy of the waterfall, we use the energy of the wind, we use the energy of the sun, we can even store energy but we cannot create energy, this is our gift. So when you have energy in your body, you have to be very careful what you do with it.

Iain: Yes, I’ve learnt that over the years. (Francoise and Iain laugh).

Francoise: And you won’t have it for long. You’ll have it only during your lifetime. So it’s a very big responsibility, you have energy now. It’s a gift. What do you do with it? Do you spend it in things that are not giving you pleasure or giving you life or do you just waste it? For instance, anger is a way, a stupid way to lose your energy in a way.

Iain: So, the second law is, chaos rules! I quite like this law about chaos rules (Francoise laughs). So, just talk about how that manifests in day to day life – the chaos rule.

Francoise: Yes, this is a second law that is controlling our life. We are dying because of this second law. If we don’t use energy, we don’t consume energy, as you say, this body will soon have a defective reaction and if I stay in my chair for two or three days without using energy. I will die. So what it means, I will die, means my molecules will lose their coherence which makes them disperse and like the water, like the heat of this glass (she points to her glass of water), if I am not going to heat it again and again, it will get cold and my molecules will get cold also and with the cold they will be dispersed in the atmosphere, they will not have energy to coagulate and to stay together and I will die, so this is the second law of thermo-dynamics. The spontaneous reactions, the spontaneous direction of molecules, is to go to dispersion, to mixing. If I put wine in this glass, it will mix with the water, this is spontaneous. This is what the second law is telling you about the spontaneous reaction of a molecule, is to go to more chaos but on the other hand you have life and life is momentary, going to the other direction, which means to synthesis, to order. We have these two emotions in our body, every moment we have molecules that are going to chaos, because we are losing cells, through all kinds of processes that you know and we are gaining energy with which we are making new cells and this movement is…it looks as if it’s going against the second law but it doesn’t. In this process of staying alive we are also making a lot of disorder by losing our cells or by losing our saliva and other liquid and solids. We are also putting more disorder into this world but in the same time we are making order and the disorder, the overall disorder, is compensating the order that we are making.

Iain: Okay and the third law is potential order would be culled.

Francoise: Yes, if everything was in order according to chemistry, then the very order would be like the molecules that are stacked….

Iain: There would be no movement.

Francoise: Yes. No movement at all, no movement at all, this could only be at a very, very low temperature, this is perfect order. Everything is separated. This temperature cannot be reached. It’s is not really a law, it is a statement.

Iain: Actually…459.67 degrees. Yes, you say absolute zero is when most atoms are motionless.

Francoise: Which is not possible actually. Nobody, no laboratory could reach this temperature. What is interesting is that atoms cannot be still, it cannot be because quantum mechanics tells us you cannot know the position and speed of an atom and if you knew where an atom was it wouldn’t be an atom, which is what quantum mechanics tells you. (Iain agrees). It cannot be.

Iain: And you have another heading, ‘Life is Not Restful, ‘ and in a way that’s what so many of us on a spiritual path are searching for, is peace and rest, but inherently on a biological level there are all these reactions going on and life, there is all this life and it is not restful as you say.

Francoise: Always exchanging matter and energy with the outside, but it’s not exactly connected to the rest that you’re talking about. I think the spiritual rest is more connected to the kind of harmonious communication between our molecules, this is a kind of peace and rest you’re very aware of, there’s no noise between our molecules. Like you would have a radio on, a fine tune with no noise, this is a spiritual rest, a pure sound, because if we are talking about waves, we are imaging, we are full of waves and these waves, if they were sound waves we would, we would have a spatial tone, each of us would have a spatial tone, a spatial voice. So the spiritual rest you are talking about would be like tuning your radio to only have this pure, pure, pure voice with no noise around.

Iain: As I listen to you explain this, which you explain very clearly, it’s as if you’re to allow our molecules to do what they want to do…

Francoise: In a way, yes.

Iain: Not to resist on different levels, whether it is physical or emotional or psychological or spiritual, we just need to allow life molecules to just take their course.

Francoise: Yeah, because life is a natural process and you create life, so when you reach this point of your molecules being very alive in a way and very aware of each other and communicating with each other, then you enter the stream of life and life always brings life.

Iain: Life always brings life.

Francoise: Life is immortal and this is vital to life and life is immortal.

Iain: Because you talk about in every moment we choose between life and death and it’s not really a conscious decision is it?

Francoise: No.

Iain: It’s somehow allowing our body, all the molecules to make that decision for us, what lives, and what dies.

Francoise: Yes, our body is making the decision. What I meant is, we have energy and we can use it to either put all our energy into this life process or into the death process, you can waste your energy in a way.

Iain: Yes, you mentioned that, yeah. Okay, so how do the molecules communicate with each other? We’ve established everywhere there’s molecules, we perceive them having different forms but how is that communication happening, what do we know about that?

Francoise: We don’t know much. All I can say is what I feel about it. I feel that because they are waves, the way that we can communicate is by having interference between the waves and you have constructive interference and you have destructive interference. Constructive interference is to have light, light and more light and destructive interference is to have light, light and they become darkness. You can make darkness with two rays of light, you see. So, what I would say is if you have a constructive interference you have more life and when you have destructive interference you destruct your energy.

Iain: So what influences the constructive or the destructive interference?

Francoise: Well, first of all we have to recognize this process in us, what gives us energy and what takes out energy from our life and to go through the process of pulling up and not down. So it’s more a kind of recognition and I think that the most important point in this process is to look at our emotions. I think emotions play a very important role, the way we move our energy.

Iain: Well, let’s talk about that. How do you find in your own life that looking at the emotions is helpful?

Francoise: For instance, you are talking to me and I could say, I could have thoughts that this man is trying to put me down, he’s trying to whatever and this thought would give me emotion, making me small and making me negative.

Iain: Negative emotions.

Francoise: Or I could say, what a great opportunity I have here to be sitting with Iain and to have this wonderful conversation. So this is an emotion that I can choose actually and this would give me a different attitude and I believe that my molecules would be raising up and very happy. This would make me go out of here with a great spirit and this is all it is about, how you look at life.

Iain: Yes in a way we do have some power….

Francoise: Of course we do…...

Iain: Over the molecules, we can influence the molecules.

Francoise: Yeah, only during our lifetimes, so use it, we have a tremendous power.

Iain: We’ll talk more about that together, this tremendous power we have.

Francoise: Yes, we have the power to decide how you wanna look at people around, we can choose, this is what quantum mechanics is saying. You choose, the brain is choosing how to look at matter because there are so many options. Matter is like a wave packet of possibilities. This is what matter is. Matter is only possibilities and our brain is choosing the possibility, one of the tremendous options, number of options that they are and this choice is made through our emotions. This is what I have discovered from my teachings with Colette and others that I am learning with today.

Iain: Okay, so the picture gets more fascinating in a way because it almost seems contradictory. On the one hand, everywhere is molecules, we are all connected, I know you go on later in the book to talk about that actually, we’re all in a way one organism because the molecules are everywhere and yet on the other hand you’re saying that in our human life, while we are alive, there is a decision making process, or there’s a preferential process, which we have a degree of control over as to how to be positive or negative in life, which affects the molecules.
Let’s take an example I found interesting in the book. You talk about when we look at a painting and I know Renata, my wife, was telling me once the story that she’d read. There’s quite a famous museum in Italy somewhere, where there’s old paintings and sometimes people will look at a painting and they will go crazy afterwards and sometimes they’re even taken off for a time, into a psychiatric ward because it’s triggered something in them. So on a chemical level what’s happened there?  From what I understand you’re saying, the molecules in me let’s say, look at a painting, and the painting also contains molecules, something is triggered here (pointing to his chest)? How does that all work in terms of how we all work, how we are chemically influenced by whatever we see, a painting or anything else?

Francoise: Well, I believe….you have matter and you look at the painting and what is a painting? It’s like a board with a layer of molecules and you look….

Iain: But the board is molecules too.

Francoise: Everything is molecules, but here I’m focusing on the layer of paint on this board and these layers are influencing, not only your sight but your emotions too. This is what…meaning that the emotions also come from matter. They don’t come from outside, they come from matter. So the colour of the sky is giving you emotions, the scenery around you is giving you emotions and this is the link between matter and mind and because after emotions we have thoughts and imagination, so these emotions are the bridge making the link between mind and matter. I don’t think there is a separation between matter and mind. It’s all one and it belongs to these many, many, many waves that I was talking about when you choose the way to look, when my brain chooses the colour of your sweater. It chooses also the emotions that this colour will bring to me, you see? This is how it works, it’s a whole package deal.

Iain: Yes, you see I thought previously that the thoughts triggered the emotions, but what you’re saying is that the emotion, from the molecules, triggers the thoughts.

Francoise: Yes, but it can go both ways, so thoughts can trigger the emotions, because your molecules are like one, like two sides of the same coin.

Iain: Okay………So, what we’re saying is that I have a choice, I’m personalizing here, my emotions are triggered by molecules essentially, and then once I’m aware of an emotion there, I, as a human being, then have a choice whether to go down the route of following the emotion or whether, (wherever that’s going to take me, that’s also going to be part of my mental conditioning because we’re all in a way conditioned), I can actually stop the process, question it and possibly go down a different route?

Francoise: Yes, yes……

Iain: That brings up something else you mentioned in the book about the brain itself. You talk about the brain, which is often known as the control centre in a human being but you’re saying it’s more like a traffic policeman, so it’s conveying information that comes in itself, it’s not making decisions. Have I got that correct?

Francoise: Yeah. I think it doesn’t make the decisions but it makes an interpretation and you choose the interplay. It’s not only a traffic policeman, your interpretation of this sweater being blue, you also choose what emotion is connected to this blue you see, something in yourself. It’s certainly not just in your brain with the emotions that are connected to the colour your brain is projecting to you.

Iain: Okay, the chooser of the emotions, I presume that goes outside the world of chemistry does it?

Francoise: Yes, yes.

Iain: So, do you have a feel for that? Do you wanna give us a clue on that? Who is the chooser of the emotions or interpretations?

Francoise: There is obviously something bigger than our brain. We are not only our brain and what it dictates.  We have something else, I think this is the only place we have a choice, it’s beyond the power of the brain and I think that this is something that each of us has to discover in her own way, that we have these observers. This is what we are actually and what is beyond the observer is also another question, the one who is observing the observer.

Iain: Big question!

Francoise: Yes, this already belongs to metaphysics and I think that I will write another book about this issue and it has to be more clear.

Iain: Yes. Just to try and put this in more basic terms, so the levels we know exist, there are the emotions, which are coming via the brain, the brain’s like the messenger. Then we have the observer who’s watching everything, what’s going on. So I can watch my emotions, I can watch my mind react to situations and then there’s that observer and then because I know that I’m observing, it’s who is observing the observer, which would generally be called by many people, consciousness. Something that is very intangible for us, especially from a scientific point of view.

Francoise: Yes, yes we’re getting there to metaphysics. What is interesting is that I would like to emphasize in my book is that, there are no two different rules, this consciousness, which you can reach through spiritual practices, or a spiritual path is not different from the one you can reach through science, that is the important message of the book.

Iain: We’ll talk more about that.

Francoise: There is no contradiction between a spiritual path and a scientific path. If the science is really looking for truth and I believe that you reach exactly the same point, which d’Espagnat, a French Physicist called, ‘The Veiled Reality’.  Something that is beyond everything, that many people would call God, you see. Einstein had said himself that, ‘Science without God is lame,’ and, excuse me, ‘Science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind.’ We need both. Once you lose or discard, disdain, is that a proper English word?

Iain: Yes, disdain, reject.

Francoise: Disdain, reject the other, this is the message of my book also.

Iain: Yes.

Francoise: Both sides are the same truth. This is what I feel and in doing all my research I wanted to see how it could fit.

Iain: Yes, well, you explain that very well.

Francoise: Thank you.

Iain: And there’s a line here I wanted to read out, ‘You are unique but not cut off from the world, even if you feel lonely, you are in constant contact with the molecules that surround you, everything is connected to everything.’

Francoise: Yes, you are unique, in the depth of yourself you have a DNA that no-one has and no-one can take from you, so we are unique and we are mostly empty as you said. Atoms are mostly empty, but we’re, all of us, unique. I cannot be you and you can see all the different faces of the seven billion people that are in the world, everyone is different. We are really unique and with this uniqueness, that’s given to us only for our lifetime, we express and we have this special tune that we should think of as a song and everybody can have a very, very, pure tone, this is our gift. We are connected because whatever you feel, your molecules, your waves are hitting mine now and either we have, like a good interference or a bad interference, but I can feel you and your body is not finished here (points to her body), it’s going out, because waves are not finished, they have no borders and you are influencing the universe. It’s as if you think that if your eyes are closed I won’t see you, do you see what I mean? Even if you are not aware or if you are a bit closed to this wonder that is around you, but you do belong to it.

Iain: So, how does Consensus Reality fit into this? Again you have a line here, which I wrote out. You talk about quantum theories, which still are very new and are only just starting to infiltrate the public mind. Could there be a wall between matter and mind, placed there solely by consensus?

Francoise: Yeah, I feel that people think there is matter and there is mind, two different worlds but it is not. It’s like during the Copernican time, we thought we had man, and above, the sky, (she puts her hands above her head), which looked like a ceiling, we had God, and it’s different and we would never be connected and were totally separated from something much bigger than us. Here too, I feel that we have a wall inside, not outside and this wall should be broken because we should be much more harmonious in, how would you say, in accordance with our thoughts, our bodies should reflect our thoughts. What I mean is, that we feel we can eat whatever we want and we will have thoughts that are not connected to what we eat, which is not true, you see what I mean? There is a strong connection.

Iain: It’s coming back to this harmony isn’t it? (Francoise agrees). There’s interconnectedness and in our own way finding our own harmony.

Francoise: And I believe that if we try to see this wall and in a way to break it and how you break it, is by looking at it. We can break it by stopping believing that it’s there, live much more in harmony with our thoughts and our lives, our inner world and our outer world. The misery of the world comes because we feel a big difference between our inner world and our outer world. We are not able to express our will, our love and our fears. We are totally disconnected. Most people are putting on masks because they are afraid to be what they really are. So they have put a wall inside themselves and this wall should be broken and this is the consensus I think, we should take now.

Iain: And the seed of the wall is this perceived separation, which the world of chemistry and molecules completely debunks. There is no real separation, yet somehow we believe in this separation and we don’t, as you explained today, we don’t understand on a molecular level how everything is so connected.

Francoise: And, Erich Fromm, he was a humanist and a psychologist, and he wrote that the deepest will that human beings have is to communicate, we wish to communicate, this is what we really want and we can if we would take this wall out. Because you are me in a way, we are connected and all we are is a little different. If we could use Judaism, we are all images of God, as if we are all mirrors of the image of God, so what we have to do is clean our mirror, meaning to take this wall out and be who we are, taking all the fears all the sins that are preventing us from being ourselves and then we could feel that we are all one.

Iain: Well, that’s a pretty good place to finish isn’t it?  Feel we are all one, which science tells us is true (Francoise agrees), and somehow we have forgotten or we have to relearn…Okay Francoise, thank you very much for coming along.

Francoise: Thank you. (She laughs).

Iain: Thank you especially for visiting us in London at Conscious TV and I’m going to mention your book again.

Francoise: Thank you very much.

Iain: ‘Molecular Consciousness: Why The Universe Is Aware Of Our Presence.’ And thank you for watching and I do hope we will see you again soon. Good-bye.

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